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Subject: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: ref@bga.com (ref) Date: 1995/07/18 Message-Id: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> Organization: Real/Time Communications - Bob Gustwick and Associates Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
This has been brought up before, but nobody's really addressed it beyond, "well, one guy I talked to said he heard...." Does anyone have any good, reliable information on this subject? Name brand TCW-III oils, e.g. Mercury Quicksilver, is bloody expensive, running $16-$19 a gallon. If you're use a big V6 outboard (150HP+) very often, this can add up to some real money. In contrast, Walmart's oil is $7 a gallon. TCW-III. Says right there on the label, "meets or exceeds all specifications." They have Lubrimatic TCW-III for $8 a gallon. Somebody here blurbed recently, "you didn't take up boating to save money." I think that's a little spurious. We didn't get to the point of being able to afford a boat by being financially reckless, either. If there's really no difference between these cheaper oils and the "name" brands, if you're really just "paying for the name," when you shell out almost twenty bucks a jug full for that Mercury Quicksilver, I want to know about it. ======================================================================= .... \ ................................................................ ..... \ ..........................................RON MORGAN........... ...... \ .............|...........................ref@bga.com.......... ....... \ ........___/| _________________ ........Austin,Texas......... ..... ___\________|___|/__/__/__/__/__/...........NRA-LSBA-GCCA........ .....|- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - /.....http://www.realtime.net/~ref/ .....\ INNER CIRCLE--------------/................................... =======================================================================
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: mroberts@ptdcs2.intel.com (Mark Roberts) Date: 1995/07/20 Message-Id: <3ulo1h$ran@ptdcs5.al.intel.com> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> Organization: Intel PTD, Aloha, OR Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
In article <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com>, ref <ref@bga.com> wrote: >This has been brought up before, but nobody's really addressed it >beyond, "well, one guy I talked to said he heard...." > >Does anyone have any good, reliable information on this subject? >Name brand TCW-III oils, e.g. Mercury Quicksilver, is bloody >expensive, running $16-$19 a gallon. If you're use a big V6 >outboard (150HP+) very often, this can add up to some real >money. > >In contrast, Walmart's oil is $7 a gallon. TCW-III. Says right >there on the label, "meets or exceeds all specifications." They >have Lubrimatic TCW-III for $8 a gallon. > The local Johnson/Evinrude dealer in Pacific City, Oregon sells Johnson TCW-III oil in bulk for $10/gallon. Maybe if you find somebody that sells in bulk somewhere in *your* area??? Only problem is that you have to supply your own jugs (maybe some of the left over jugs from all the oil you have bought in the past? Hope this helps, sea ya, Fish to Live, Live to Fish 'Fish Assassin' Mark Pacific City, OR ***** lookin' for adventure on the High Seas off the Oregon Coast ******
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: jab@narcesc.atl.hp.com (Alan Barrow) Date: 1995/08/01 Message-Id: <3vkegq$njb@hpuerci.atl.hp.com> Distribution: world References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ulo1h$ran@ptdcs5.al.intel.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
In <3ulo1h$ran@ptdcs5.al.intel.com> mroberts@ptdcs2.intel.com (Mark Roberts) writes: >The local Johnson/Evinrude dealer in Pacific City, Oregon sells >Johnson TCW-III oil in bulk for $10/gallon. Maybe if you find >somebody that sells in bulk somewhere in *your* area??? Only >problem is that you have to supply your own jugs (maybe some of >the left over jugs from all the oil you have bought in the past?>the left over jugs from all the oil you have bought in the past? Be careful, in Atlanta, dealers have been "caught" selling TCW-II as TCW-III, etc. Seems like you might be engaging in false economy here. FYI, Robin, one of the Yamaha factory reps that hits the shows made several key points about oil: - The TCW-III spec is very tight. Any oil that meets TCW-III is acceptable. - The above comment is not true for TCW-II. - All three major brands (Merc/OMC/Yam) are produced by the same mfgs. Mainly the dye is different. - All three major brands worked together to develop the TCW-III spec because II was so loose. - Fuel quality is as big of an issue. Additive for cars are usually not helpful to 2 strokes. They end up producing ash. They like Chevron and Texico gas, as they both have Chevron Techron. Yamaha also sells Ringfree, which is simply Techron. It is very good for the fuel system, and removing carbon deposits. (Caused by ash) My feelings: Avoid unmarked "Bulk oil". TCW-II smells like ammonia as well. Use a quality brand of TCW-III. I use Yamalube, Castroil, and texaco. Castroil and Texaco is cheap enough not to go with brand X. Alan Barrow km4ba | If a little knowledge..... Work: jab@atl.hp.com | is a dangerous thing..... Home:alan@km4ba.ampr.org | then what is the Anti-Dote???
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: fortner@digital.net (D. Fortner) Date: 1995/08/01 Message-Id: <3vl67i$fm1@ddi2.digital.net> Distribution: world References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ulo1h$ran@ptdcs5.al.intel.com> <3vkegq$njb@hpuerci.atl.hp.com> Followup-To: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater Organization: FLORIDA ONLINE, Florida's Premier Internet Provider Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
Alan Barrow (jab@narcesc.atl.hp.com) wrote: : In <3ulo1h$ran@ptdcs5.al.intel.com> mroberts@ptdcs2.intel.com (Mark Roberts) writes: : Be careful, in Atlanta, dealers have been "caught" selling TCW-II : as TCW-III, etc. Seems like you might be engaging in false : economy here. How did that happen? There was a very distinct color difference in the OMC oils. The TCW-II was blue, the TCW-III was red and purple. My mechinic (OMC factory dealer) said that they dropped the red colored oil because the red dye used stained gel-coat. Dave Fortner fortner@ddi.digital.net
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: jab@narcesc.atl.hp.com (Alan Barrow) Date: 1995/08/04 Message-Id: <3vrvt4$lsi@hpuerci.atl.hp.com> Distribution: world References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ulo1h$ran@ptdcs5.al.intel.com> <3vkegq$njb@hpuerci.atl.hp.com> <3vl67i$fm1@ddi2.digital.net> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
In <3vl67i$fm1@ddi2.digital.net>fortner@digital.net (D. Fortner) writes: >How did that happen? There was a very distinct color difference in the >OMC oils. The TCW-II was blue, the TCW-III was red and purple. My Add red dye to blue TCW-II, and you get purple TCW-III looking stuff. Suppose you had 2-3 55 gal drums of TCW-II stocked up, and out comes TCW-III. Your old stuff is worthless. What do you do? I buy my oil in sealed containers. :-) Alan Barrow km4ba | If a little knowledge..... Work: jab@atl.hp.com | is a dangerous thing..... Home: alan@km4ba.ampr.org | then what is the Anti-Dote???
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: ed@ada1.ssd.csd.harris.com (Ed Kelly) Date: 1995/08/05 Message-Id: <3vuon8$ffi@hawk.hcsc.com> Distribution: world References: <3ulo1h$ran@ptdcs5.al.intel.com> <3vkegq$njb@hpuerci.atl.hp.com> <3vl67i$fm1@ddi2.digital.net> Organization: Harris CSD, Ft. Lauderdale, FL Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
In article <3vl67i$fm1@ddi2.digital.net> fortner@digital.net (D. Fortner) writes: >Alan Barrow (jab@narcesc.atl.hp.com) wrote: >: In <3ulo1h$ran@ptdcs5.al.intel.com> mroberts@ptdcs2.intel.com (Mark Roberts) writes: > >: Be careful, in Atlanta, dealers have been "caught" selling TCW-II >: as TCW-III, etc. Seems like you might be engaging in false >: economy here. > >How did that happen? There was a very distinct color difference in the >OMC oils. The TCW-II was blue, the TCW-III was red and purple. My >mechinic (OMC factory dealer) said that they dropped the red colored oil >because the red dye used stained gel-coat. > All the OMC TCW-III oil I have bought (both bulk and in original packaging) has been red. I have spilled it on my gelcoat and it has not stained it. I would call OMC to get the facts before I bought blue OMC "TCW-III" oil. I have not see any dealer in South Florida selling TCW-III oil that was not red. I'm not saying your mechanic is wrong, but I would want indepedent verification before I believed it. -- Ed Kelly
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: Michael Lansing <mlansing@Dragon.orl.mmc.com> Date: 1995/08/08 Message-Id: <NEWTNews.807891238.29093.mlansing@Dragon.orl.mmc.com> References: <3ulo1h$ran@ptdcs5.al.intel.com> <3vkegq$njb@hpuerci.atl.hp.com> <3vl67i$fm1@ddi2.digital.net> <3vuon8$ffi@hawk.hcsc.com> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Organization: IPL InterNetNews site Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.boats,alt.fishing
> All the OMC TCW-III oil I have bought (both bulk and in original > packaging) has been red. I have spilled it on my gelcoat and it > has not stained it. I would call OMC to get the facts before I bought > blue OMC "TCW-III" oil. I have not see any dealer in South Florida > selling TCW-III oil that was not red. I'm not saying your mechanic > is wrong, but I would want indepedent verification before I believed it. > > > > -- > Ed Kelly > OMC makes two kinds of TCW III oil. One has a Johnson label on it and it is red. The other has an Evinrude label on it and it is blue. I talked with an OMC service rep(actually with OMC)a while ago, he said it is the same oil just dyed differently. Like Johnsons are white and Evinrudes are blue... Mike "No Slack"
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oilsFrom: Jim Bell <belljr> Date: 1995/08/10 Message-Id: <40cvss$g59@dawn.mmm.com> References: <3ulo1h$ran@ptdcs5.al.intel.com> <3vkegq$njb@hpuerci.atl.hp.com> <3vl67i$fm1@ddi2.digital.net> <3vuon8$ffi@hawk.hcsc.com> <NEWTNews.807891238.29093.mlansing@Dragon.orl.mmc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-Ascii Organization: 3M - St. Paul, MN 55144-1000 US X-Url: news:NEWTNews.807891238.29093.mlansing@Dragon.orl.mmc.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.boats,alt.fishing X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/715)
Mike, What you here is correct in the coloring process. I fish Professionaly on the Cabela's NAWA circuit and the question has come up by some of the anglers that run OMC's. One word of caution with the new TCW-III oils is the grade of fuel that you run along with it. With the new oil there is a lot of dtergent that is mixed right in with it. This is also true with the higher grade fuels. We have been advised by Mercury and OMC not to mix the two. If you run TCW-III run a 87 or 88 Octoane. If you run a TCW-II run a higher octane 90-92. I run a 19'6" Champion Walleye boat with a 225hp Mercury and have seen no difference in performance going to the cheaper 87 octane fuel.
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: ed@ada1.ssd.csd.harris.com (Ed Kelly) Date: 1995/08/15 Message-Id: <40p13d$5ts@hawk.hcsc.com> References: <3vl67i$fm1@ddi2.digital.net> <3vuon8$ffi@hawk.hcsc.com> <NEWTNews.807891238.29093.mlansing@Dragon.orl.mmc.com> Organization: Harris CSD, Ft. Lauderdale, FL Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.boats,alt.fishing
In article <NEWTNews.807891238.29093.mlansing@Dragon.orl.mmc.com> Michael Lansing <mlansing@Dragon.orl.mmc.com> writes: > > I (Ed Kelly) originally wrote : >> >> All the OMC TCW-III oil I have bought (both bulk and in original >> packaging) has been red. >> >> Ed Kelly >> >OMC makes two kinds of TCW III oil. One has a Johnson label on it >and it is red. The other has an Evinrude label on it and it is blue. >I talked with an OMC service rep(actually with OMC)a while ago, he >said it is the same oil just dyed differently. Like Johnsons are >white and Evinrudes are blue... I had always bought my oil from a Johnson dealer - I presumed the oil was red to differentiate TCW-III from TCW-II. Guess I was wrong. Seems that that would have been the sensible way for OMC to do it so that we could be sure we were getting the real thing. -- Ed Kelly
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: NATH16A@prodigy.com (James Booth) Date: 1995/08/01 Message-Id: <3vlr3r$1pem@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> Distribution: world References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ulo1h$ran@ptdcs5.al.intel.com> <3vkegq$njb@hpuerci.atl.hp.com> <3vl67i$fm1@ddi2.digital.net> Organization: Prodigy Services Company 1-800-PRODIGY Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing
I've been a river guide for many years and have always used Johnson oil until this year when I switched to Wal-mart TCW-III oil at something like $6.00 per gallon here in Alaska. Our motors tell NO difference!!! I have yet to change a plug or have any sign of problems. If an oil meets or exceeds the requirements----use it!
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: ed@ada1.ssd.csd.harris.com (Ed Kelly) Date: 1995/08/04 Message-Id: <3vu28h$2v6@hawk.hcsc.com> Distribution: world References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ulo1h$ran@ptdcs5.al.intel.com> <3vkegq$njb@hpuerci.atl.hp.com> Organization: Harris CSD, Ft. Lauderdale, FL Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
In article <3vkegq$njb@hpuerci.atl.hp.com> jab@narcesc.atl.hp.com (Alan Barrow) writes: >In <3ulo1h$ran@ptdcs5.al.intel.com> mroberts@ptdcs2.intel.com (Mark Roberts) writes: > >>The local Johnson/Evinrude dealer in Pacific City, Oregon sells >>Johnson TCW-III oil in bulk for $10/gallon. Maybe if you find >>somebody that sells in bulk somewhere in *your* area??? Only >>problem is that you have to supply your own jugs (maybe some of >>the left over jugs from all the oil you have bought in the past?>the >left over jugs from all the oil you have bought in the past? > >Be careful, in Atlanta, dealers have been "caught" selling TCW-II >as TCW-III, etc. Seems like you might be engaging in false >economy here. > The OMC TCW-II oil is blue while the TCW-III is red. Unless the dealers are dying the oil it would be tough for them to pass TCW-II off as TCW-III. I don't know if Yamaha or Mercury oil can be identified so easily. Most of the dealers that resell bulk oil in South Florida use it as a loss leader - it features prominently in their ads and some have limits on the quantity they will sell to a customer. I don't think there is a great risk in buying it from a reputable dealer. -- Ed Kelly
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: HRMR92A@prodigy.com (Robert Huggins) Date: 1995/08/04 Message-Id: <3vsbip$2tru@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> Distribution: world References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ulo1h$ran@ptdcs5.al.intel.com> <3vkegq$njb@hpuerci.atl.hp.com> Organization: Prodigy Services Company 1-800-PRODIGY Newsgroups: rec.boats
There is alot of mis-information about TC-W3 50:1 2-cycle oil. I recently had the opportunity to discuss this with OMC, Mercury, and CITGO. CITGO formulates the oil for OMC, Mercury, Yamaha, and Suzuki to name a few. They all agree that there is a difference in the protection provided by different TC-W3 oils, even though they all exceed the TC-W3 specifications. Mercury, for example, now sells three different grades of TC-W3 oil. They sell a "Premium", "Premium Plus", and "BIO-2". Their TC-W3 "Premium" oil is a formulation that is very close to their old TC-W2 "Premium" oil, and it does pass the TC-W3 specification. Their TC-W3 "Premium Plus" has a different formulation with more additives for "engine protection in extreme conditions and higher horsepower applications". Mercury even has a matrix chart of the three oils graded according to 12 criteria. For example, on the criteria "Reduces carbon buildup in exhaust system", "Premium" rates a 7.0, "Premium Plus" rates a 9.0, and "BIO-2" rates a 9.0. On the criteria "Provides increased lubrication and detergency to combat the effect of low-grade fuels in all brands and horsepower ranges of outboard engines", "Premium" rates a 7.5, "Premium Plus" rates a 9.0, and "BIO-2" rates a 8.5. OMC's one and only TC-W3 lubricant is very close in additives to Mercury's "Premium Plus" grade of TC-W3 oil. CITGO's "Extra Range" TC-W3 oil is better than Mercury's TC-W3 "Premium", but does not have as many additives as Mercury's TC-W3 "Premium Plus" oil. The TC-W3 oils of Yamaha and Suzuki also have alot of additives like the OMC and Mercury "Premium Plus" TC-W3. Conclusion: There is a difference in different TC-W3 oils. How do you know which to buy? You need to decide what level of protection you need. Do you know that you are using good quality fuel? If not, then you need an oil that provides additional protection. How critical is engine lubrication to your engine? If you have a high horsepower (70HP and higher) or will be using your engine under extreme conditions (extended full throttle operation), then you need the best oil that you can get. The real problem is in determining which brands provide the best additives. Too bad TC-W3 does not require a matrix showing how well a particular oil did on the criteria required for the specification. A safe bet would be to buy the oil formulated buy the engine manufacturer. It stands the best chance of being formulated to address the needs of your specific engine. I hope this helps! ROBERT HUGGINS --> hrmr92a@prodigy.com
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: jmichels@rd.qms.com (Joe Michels) Date: 1995/07/21 Message-Id: <jmichels-2107951130100001@161.33.128.99> Sender: usenet@qms.com References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> Organization: QMS Inc. Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
In article <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com>, ref@bga.com (ref) wrote: > This has been brought up before, but nobody's really addressed it > beyond, "well, one guy I talked to said he heard...." > > Does anyone have any good, reliable information on this subject? > Name brand TCW-III oils, e.g. Mercury Quicksilver, is bloody > expensive, running $16-$19 a gallon. If you're use a big V6 > outboard (150HP+) very often, this can add up to some real > money. > > In contrast, Walmart's oil is $7 a gallon. TCW-III. Says right > there on the label, "meets or exceeds all specifications." They > have Lubrimatic TCW-III for $8 a gallon. > > Somebody here blurbed recently, "you didn't take up boating to > save money." I think that's a little spurious. We didn't get to > the point of being able to afford a boat by being financially > reckless, either. If there's really no difference between these > cheaper oils and the "name" brands, if you're really just "paying > for the name," when you shell out almost twenty bucks a jug full > for that Mercury Quicksilver, I want to know about it. > I just purchased a 95 Johnson 150 FastStrike motor. In the owners manual it mentions to use BIA Approved TCW-III oil. I neven mentioned that you are required to use OMC or Mercury brands. I've read artical about using off brand oils and it said all you're doing is paying for the name. Finally, call OMC or Mercury's warranty number and ask them if using off brand oil will void the warranty. I know I will save money and buy and use less expensive, TCW-III oils. Joe
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: rrusk@aksi.net (Bob Rusk) Date: 1995/07/22 Message-Id: <3urin1$pri@wn.aksi.net> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <jmichels-2107951130100001@161.33.128.99> Organization: Acquired Knowledge Systems, Inc. Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
I can't comment on TCW-III (I haven't experimented with the generic stuff), but in the days when TCW-II was king, there was a _LARGE_ difference between brands. It showed up very quickly in fouled plugs, stuck rings, etc.
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: fortner@digital.net (D. Fortner) Date: 1995/07/21 Message-Id: <3uoqsk$jal@ddi2.digital.net> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <jmichels-2107951130100001@161.33.128.99> Followup-To: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater Organization: FLORIDA ONLINE, Florida's Premier Internet Provider Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
Joe Michels (jmichels@rd.qms.com) wrote: : In article <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com>, ref@bga.com (ref) wrote: : I just purchased a 95 Johnson 150 FastStrike motor. In the owners manual : it mentions to use BIA Approved TCW-III oil. I neven mentioned that you : are required to use OMC or Mercury brands. : I've read artical about using off brand oils and it said all you're doing : is paying for the name. : Finally, call OMC or Mercury's warranty number and ask them if using off : brand oil will void the warranty. : I know I will save money and buy and use less expensive, TCW-III oils. I've spoken with my mechanic (OMC) about this a couple of times. He claims that OMC has their oils made for them by someone else, the only difference is that they own exlusive rights to some of the additives that are used. The same applys to Merc and Yamaha oils. Some of other oils brands may have additives that work as well, maybe better but you just never know what's in 'em. I buy the OMC TCW-III from him in bulk for $10.38/gallon. I use so much fuel/bait/ice on a trip that I'll pay $3-4 extra for the peace of mind to know that I have a quality oil in my reservior, but then again, I burn premium fuel when I can get it, anything that may/will extend the life of my motor is worth any resonable price. The idea of buying a new motor at ~$10,000 doesn't appeal to me one little bitty bit. Dave Fortner fortner@ddi.digital.net
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: JDLC88A@prodigy.com (Lester Boomgaarden) Date: 1995/07/22 Message-Id: <3upn2b$1lpm@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com> Distribution: world References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <jmichels-2107951130100001@161.33.128.99> <3uoqsk$jal@ddi2.digital.net> Organization: Prodigy Services Company 1-800-PRODIGY Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing
Well, I think you've said it all. It boils down to this.... TCWIII is TCWIII. Period, the end. HOWEVER, if like myself, You've spent additional bucks for an extended warranty, best get down to the dealer and by the name brand bulk oil for a buck or two more a gallon. ON THE OTHER HAND, if your not under warranty, Who is going to care. Certainly not the manufacturer, your gonna pay the same for the repair regardless of whose oil your using. So, it boils down to peace of mind. For the record, I called Mercury about the ITASCA brand oil because of the advertised (meaning not verified) benefits to the ecology. They would not say Itasca oil would void my 5 year warranty, they just restated the users manual "use of other than QUICKSILVER oil may void your warranty" line. Bottom line. If you are under warranty, make sure the oil you use has the right color die in it. If not, I'm sure it doesn't matter.. Your choice. The Idea is to catch a fish, right?, not save a buck a gallon on oil. Hope the fishin" good and the run to "em short!!! Les Boomgaarden
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: charles@backfire.mn.org (Charles) Date: 1995/07/22 Message-Id: <3uqui1$3pr@werewolf.backfire.mn.org> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <jmichels-2107951130100001@161.33.128.99> <3uoqsk$jal@ddi2.digital.net> Organization: The Haunted Unix box Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
D. Fortner (fortner@digital.net) wrote: [...snip] : extra for the peace of mind to know that I have a quality oil in my : reservior, but then again, I burn premium fuel when I can get it, : anything that may/will extend the life of my motor is worth any resonable : price. The idea of buying a new motor at ~$10,000 doesn't appeal to me : one little bitty bit. This leads into another good subject....Fuels. I know you're not supposed to use any alcohol based fuels, but is there any advantage to using 89 octane vs. 87 in an old Johnson OB? I've heard that if you use higher octane fuels in your car, that the engine can become octane dependant and start pinging if you quit using it. --
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: xr4ti@delphi.com Date: 1995/07/23 Message-Id: <5XEDJKB.xr4ti@delphi.com> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <jmichels-2107951130100001@161.33.128.99> <3uoqsk$jal@ddi2.digital.net> <3uqui1$3pr@werewolf.backfire.mn.org> Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) X-To: Charles <charles@backfire.mn.org> Newsgroups: rec.boats
I pulled the heads off my 200 plus hp merc. I was using merc/omc tcw3 at the time. I turn any where from 4000 up to 7000 plus. The piston tops had very little carbon and no scoring accured. I n this case I feel you get what you pay for. I work ed on 5-6 6 clyinder outboards, I seem scoring/ and clyinder damage, build up carbon in the exhaust chest. just buy the best you can afford. I'am currently using ansoil. by the way my motor is oil injected.
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: STG@unb.ca(Sterling T. Gallan) Date: 1995/07/19 Message-Id: <3ujmrm$btc@sol.sun.csd.unb.ca> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> Organization: University of New Brunswick Reply-To: STG@unb.ca Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
In <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com>, ref@bga.com (ref) writes: >This has been brought up before, but nobody's really addressed it >beyond, "well, one guy I talked to said he heard...." > >Does anyone have any good, reliable information on this subject? >Name brand TCW-III oils, e.g. Mercury Quicksilver, is bloody >expensive, running $16-$19 a gallon. If you're use a big V6 >outboard (150HP+) very often, this can add up to some real >money. > You should be thankful.....Here in Canada that same Mercury oil is $30.00 ..not $16.00 and the cheap stuff at our Canadian Tire or Wal-Mart is the same as you pay for the Mercury down there. And we only get 4 litres not a full gallon. I have a new Mercury 115 hp and I use the cheap stuff (says TCWIII) and I suspect it's the same as the Mercury/OMC or whatever oil , just doesn't have the name. >In contrast, Walmart's oil is $7 a gallon. TCW-III. Says right >there on the label, "meets or exceeds all specifications." They >have Lubrimatic TCW-III for $8 a gallon. > >Somebody here blurbed recently, "you didn't take up boating to >save money." I think that's a little spurious. We didn't get to >the point of being able to afford a boat by being financially >reckless, either. If there's really no difference between these >cheaper oils and the "name" brands, if you're really just "paying >for the name," when you shell out almost twenty bucks a jug full >for that Mercury Quicksilver, I want to know about it. >...... \ ..........................................RON MORGAN...........
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: bell_m@a1.mscf.upenn.edu (Marcus Bell) Date: 1995/07/20 Message-Id: <3ukgge$pf2@netnews.upenn.edu> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ujmrm$btc@sol.sun.csd.unb.ca> Organization: Univ. of PA Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
In article <3ujmrm$btc@sol.sun.csd.unb.ca>, STG@unb.c says... > >In <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com>, ref@bga.com (ref) writes: >>Does anyone have any good, reliable information on this subject? >>Name brand TCW-III oils, e.g. Mercury Quicksilver, is bloody >>expensive, running $16-$19 a gallon.... >You should be thankful.....Here in Canada that same Mercury oil is $30.00 >..not $16.00 and the cheap stuff at our Canadian Tire or Wal-Mart is >the same as you pay for the Mercury down there. And we only get 4 >litres not a full gallon. I'd gladly take a full 4 litres having paid for only a gallon. -- -Marcus. (bell_m@a1.mscf.upenn.edu)
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: STG@unb.ca(Sterling T. Gallan) Date: 1995/07/21 Message-Id: <3uoajq$sm2@sol.sun.csd.unb.ca> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ujmrm$btc@sol.sun.csd.unb.ca> <3ukgge$pf2@netnews.upenn.edu> Organization: University of New Brunswick Reply-To: STG@unb.ca Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
>>the same as you pay for the Mercury down there. And we only get 4 >>litres not a full gallon. > > I'd gladly take a full 4 litres having paid for only a gallon. Not if it was an imperial gallon as it is here in Canada. (4.5 l)
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: esher@ix.netcom.com (Donna Esher ) Date: 1995/07/19 Message-Id: <3uhrvh$ebr@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> Distribution: world References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> Organization: Netcom Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
There was a report done in one of the boating mags last year regarding this. While I don't have this mag or the report it went something like this. (In everday language of course).. The oil classifications have specs which must be met to qualify them for a specific grade i.e. TCW II or TCWIII. Within these specs lies a certain tolerance. Best described as .. If the oil was to carry a rating of TCWIII then it would need to fall in the tolerance range of 5 - 10. This is where the less expensive oils come into play. They fall within the lower portion of this tolerance range somewhere around 5 or 6. Your name brands, and BTW, Yamaha Lube was rated the highest, fall in the higher end of this tolerance range. Does this answer your question ?? I'm not sure it did but perhaps it helped. -JB- In <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com>ref@bga.com (ref) writes: > >This has been brought up before, but nobody's really addressed it >beyond, "well, one guy I talked to said he heard...." > >Does anyone have any good, reliable information on this subject? >Name brand TCW-III oils, e.g. Mercury Quicksilver, is bloody >expensive, running $16-$19 a gallon. If you're use a big V6 >outboard (150HP+) very often, this can add up to some real >money. >..... \ ...................RON MORGAN...........
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: z930892@yp.uprc.com (Fulton Richard) Date: 1995/07/25 Message-Id: <3v2smq$6it@cronkite.uprc.com> Distribution: world References: <3uhrvh$ebr@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> Organization: Union Pacific Resources Company Reply-To: z930892@yp.uprc.com Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
One problem with "store brand" oils is that their quality is not consistent from batch to batch. The big chains often buy from different refiners at different times, so you may get Texaco one time and Citgo the next. I would stick to a name brand myself. Rick
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: peterb@servtech.com (peter blackwood) Date: 1995/07/19 Message-Id: <peterb.53.300C4EC9@servtech.com> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> Organization: ServiceTech, Inc. Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
>Does anyone have any good, reliable information on this subject? >Name brand TCW-III oils, e.g. Mercury Quicksilver, is bloody >expensive, running $16-$19 a gallon. If you're use a big V6 >outboard (150HP+) very often, this can add up to some real >money. No, this isn't official info, but my nose doesn't lie. Smell the Quicksilver and then the Wal-mart or Lubrimatic and you'll find one difference..........Mercury puts ALOT of ammonia in as a cleaning solvent. The dealer where I last bought an engine stated that some of the oils other than Quicksilver had a tendency to plug injection systems......... I usually alternate between the good stuff and the cheapies or mix it in the resevoir on my engine It's a good question, though. Anyone out there from one of these companies???? Peter Blackwood
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: ref@bga.com (ref) Date: 1995/07/19 Message-Id: <3ui5ap$h1i@edwin.bga.com> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <peterb.53.300C4EC9@servtech.com> Organization: Real/Time Communications - Bob Gustwick and Associates Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
In article <peterb.53.300C4EC9@servtech.com>, peter blackwood <peterb@servtech.com> wrote: >>This has been brought up before, but nobody's really addressed it >>beyond, "well, one guy I talked to said he heard...." > >>Does anyone have any good, reliable information on this subject? >>Name brand TCW-III oils, e.g. Mercury Quicksilver, is bloody >>expensive, running $16-$19 a gallon. If you're use a big V6 >>outboard (150HP+) very often, this can add up to some real >>money. > >>In contrast, Walmart's oil is $7 a gallon. TCW-III. Says right >>there on the label, "meets or exceeds all specifications." They >>have Lubrimatic TCW-III for $8 a gallon. > > >No, this isn't official info, but my nose doesn't lie. Smell the Quicksilver >and then the Wal-mart or Lubrimatic and you'll find one >difference..........Mercury puts ALOT of ammonia in as a cleaning solvent. >The dealer where I last bought an engine stated that some of the oils other >than Quicksilver had a tendency to plug injection systems......... Now, that's a classic example of the baloney I was referring to. For one thing, I'll be you a dollar to a donut that that dealer was a mercury dealer, right? He's not going to say, "no, don't buy Mercury oil, buy Evinrude oil..." So all those millions of people using "other oils" are running around with plugged injection systems? I haven't noticed. The point about the ammonia is noted, though. ======================================================================= .... \ ................................................................ ..... \ ..........................................RON MORGAN........... ...... \ .............|...........................ref@bga.com.......... ....... \ ........___/| _________________ ........Austin,Texas......... ..... ___\________|___|/__/__/__/__/__/...........NRA-LSBA-GCCA........ .....|- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - /.....http://www.realtime.net/~ref/ .....\ INNER CIRCLE--------------/................................... =======================================================================
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: nhendrix@ren.com (Doug Hendrix) Date: 1995/07/19 Message-Id: <3uk48b$17j@central.ro.com> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> Organization: RENAISSANCE INTERNET SERVICES Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
In article <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com>, ref@bga.com (ref) wrote: --snipped for brevity >Does anyone have any good, reliable information on this subject? >Name brand TCW-III oils, e.g. Mercury Quicksilver, is bloody >expensive, running $16-$19 a gallon. If you're use a big V6 >outboard (150HP+) very often, this can add up to some real >money. > >In contrast, Walmart's oil is $7 a gallon. TCW-III. Says right >there on the label, "meets or exceeds all specifications." They >have Lubrimatic TCW-III for $8 a gallon. My brothers in the oil and petroleum business and he's always used Texaco outboard oil and insisted that as long as the oil met the same specs it was the same. He finally convinced me and I was happily using "other than Mercury" oil for a while and then I ate a ring. The mechanic who worked on my boat told me he thought he could tell the difference between motors who'd used the quicksilver oil and those who hadn't. Now what's the real story? I don't know. On one hand I know that Mercury doesn't own an oil refinery so someone else must manufacture their oil. But on the other hand when you're writing that check to pay for rebuilding your motor, some doubt sneaks in. I finally decided if I was going to pay for a motor overhaul ...It wasn't going to be because I was trying to save a few bucks on oil. I buy quicksilver from a dealer in bulk. There's not that much money to be saved and I at least won't have to listen to one of my smart fishin' buddies tell me how I screwed up if my motor breaks again.
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: george@mech.seas.upenn.edu ( George Jefferson ) Date: 1995/07/20 Message-Id: <3umbi0$p79@netnews.upenn.edu> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3uk48b$17j@central.ro.com> Organization: Mechanical Engineering Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater Originator: jeffe@blue.seas.upenn.edu
:I buy quicksilver :from a dealer in bulk. Just a point for the anal-retentive. I understand its not good to store the oil for a long time. Don't try to buy a few years worth at once. -- george george@mech.seas.upenn.edu
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: swist@yip.acton.timeplex.com (Jim Swist) Date: 1995/07/19 Message-Id: <3uiuka$fb0@yip.acton.timeplex.com> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ui0k8$dej@news.halcyon.com> Organization: Ascom Nexion, Acton Massachusetts Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
C'mon guys. This is no different from buying a generic or house brand of aspirin for 50% less than Bayer. There is also a very high probablity that your favorite generic oil is EXACTLY the same as one of the name-brands because they all ultimately come from the same oil company (Exxon, Mobil, etc). What's even funnier is that this may change from year-to-year as these resellers change their suppliers due to better deals or other business reasons. So your WalMart oil may be OMC oil this year and Yamalube next year. The specs for oils are tight enough that you would have to run an engine for 100000 hours to see a difference between the upper and lower end. The manufacturing variance alone could easily account for an oil even from the same manufacturer wandering between the low and high end of the various TCW-III specs. This is all simply misplaced brand-name loyalty and succumbing to hype. I challenge any reader to post proof that the brand-name oils are in fact better.
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: ref@bga.com (ref) Date: 1995/07/19 Message-Id: <3ukf70$qor@ivy.bga.com> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ui0k8$dej@news.halcyon.com> <3uiuka$fb0@yip.acton.timeplex.com> Organization: Real/Time Communications - Bob Gustwick and Associates Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
>C'mon guys. This is no different from buying a generic or house brand of >aspirin for 50% less than Bayer. > >There is also a very high probablity that your favorite generic oil is EXACTLY t >he >same as one of the name-brands because they all ultimately come from the same >oil company (Exxon, Mobil, etc). What's even funnier is that this may change >from year-to-year as these resellers change their suppliers due to better deals >or other business reasons. So your WalMart oil may be OMC oil this year and >Yamalube next year. > >The specs for oils are tight enough that you would have to run an engine for 100 >000 >hours to see a difference between the upper and lower end. The manufacturing >variance alone could easily account for an oil even from the same manufacturer >wandering between the low and high end of the various TCW-III specs. > >This is all simply misplaced brand-name loyalty and succumbing to hype. This is exactly the kind of response that led me to make the original post. Do you, sir, have *any* factual basis on which to take this position, or is this just knee-jerk jaw-wagging? I'm reminded about hearing the same thing with regard to gasolines. Sure, a lot of them come from the same source, but the difference is in what different companies *do* with it. For example, cheap, off-brand gasolines may have a half a dozen additives to improve its performance (rust inhibitors, what have you). Top "name" brands like Exxon might have as many as *seventy* additives. They might even change the formula to match a geographic location, in consideration of weather variations, that sort of thing. I got this information from a book (I forgot the name) written by a former president of the Society of Automotive Engineers on how to extend the life of your car. So, it's entirely possible that even though different companies might get their oil from the same source ("Gulf"), the actual oil that gets out on the shelf might vary greatly between brands. One poster, for example, noticed a *greatly* enhanced odor of ammonia in Quicksilver, compared to cheaper brands. So for me, the jury's still out on this question. ======================================================================= .... \ ................................................................ ..... \ ..........................................RON MORGAN........... ...... \ ........................................ref@bga.com.......... ....... \ ........___/| _________________ ........Austin,Texas......... ..... ___\________|___|/__/__/__/__/__/...........NRA-LSBA-GCCA........ .....|- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - /.....http://www.realtime.net/~ref/ .....\ INNER CIRCLE--------------/................................... =======================================================================
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: xr4ti@delphi.com Date: 1995/07/23 Message-Id: <53ACJIH.xr4ti@delphi.com> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ui0k8$dej@news.halcyon.com> <3uiuka$fb0@yip.acton.timeplex.com> <3ukf70$qor@ivy.bga.com> Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) X-To: ref <ref@bga.com> Newsgroups: rec.boats
This is a fact i pulled the heads on my 200 plus horse power Merc. I turn 600 rpm some of the time and over 7000 for short burst. using Omc/mer oil there was no cylinder scoring and very little carbon on the piston tops. If you use other brands, on test is to pull spark plug on look in the cylinders for carbon build up. better yet pull the head and see if there is any scoring.
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: swist@yip.acton.timeplex.com (Jim Swist) Date: 1995/07/20 Message-Id: <3uloo1$hks@yip.acton.timeplex.com> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ui0k8$dej@news.halcyon.com> <3uiuka$fb0@yip.acton.timeplex.com> <3ukf70$qor@ivy.bga.com> Organization: Ascom Nexion, Acton Massachusetts Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
|> This is exactly the kind of response that led me to make the original post. |> Do you, sir, have *any* factual basis on which to take this position, or is |> this just knee-jerk jaw-wagging? Powerboat Reports article was my source - HOWEVER, in followups they have also taken the position that they would NOT take a position against the manufacturer's recommendation for the same reasons as stated in this thread. It is just not worth running afoul of warranty problems when $10K+ engines are involved. |> So, it's entirely possible that even though different companies might get |> their oil from the same source ("Gulf"), the actual oil that gets out on |> the shelf might vary greatly between brands. One poster, for example, I'd like an opinion from someone who doesn't work in the petroleum industry. Sorry but I have a great deal of cynicism toward what drives American business. I don't believe the highly profitable oil companies spend their R&D dollars tinkering with combinations of 70 additives so their gas will be "just perfect" (Yes they do adjust by region but it's very gross level adjustment). OMC/Merc/Yam were all involved in writing the TCW-III standard. I can't see that they would then take OEM oil to those specs and tinker with it (essentially saying that they didn't believe their own input to the spec) thus wasting lots of R&D money when all they have to do is: - Intimate the name brand is better - Suggest that since they make the engine, the oil must somehow be more closely match. - Suggest or outright state that you will have warranty problems*** to insure sales of their high-profit-margin oil. *** This is unenforceable in court - same as GM trying to tell you you void your can warranty if your don't use GM oil filters - they can't
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: butlerjohn@aol.com (ButlerJohn) Date: 1995/07/20 Message-Id: <3um1aq$50t@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com References: <3uloo1$hks@yip.acton.timeplex.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Reply-To: butlerjohn@aol.com (ButlerJohn) Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
I ran into the same problem earlier this year. I spoke to the Mercury High performance people and it was suggested that my warranty might be voided if I did not use Quicksilver oils. I have two 200 offshore Mercs driving a Fountain 31 SFC and these motors burn oil and fuel rapidly when we are running above cruise. I belong to Sam's Club and Texaco TCWIII is $16.90 for three gallons. I called the Texaco people and was informed that if Mercury required Quicksilver Oil, they would have to furnish the oil for the period of the warranty. I believe that it is the Magnunson Act that requires the manufacturer to furnish required solvents. The people at Texaco were most helpful and furnished several papers on TCWIII oils and indeed it seems that there is little difference in them other than price. I also read an article in Powerboat reports that indicated that the real difference was between TCW II and TCW III. I am using the Texaco I buy from Sam's Club. Good Fishing.
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: hkrause@news.gate.net (Harry Krause) Date: 1995/07/19 Message-Id: <3ujupv$212o@navajo.gate.net> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ui0k8$dej@news.halcyon.com> Followup-To: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
My Mercury dealer buys Mercury Quicksilver Oil in 55-gallon drums and resells it to his customers for about $9 a gallon, a little less if you bring your own container. Bill Peacock (billp@halcyon.com) wrote: : In article <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com>, ref@bga.com(ref) says: : > : >>snip : > : >In contrast, Walmart's oil is $7 a gallon. TCW-III. Says right : >there on the label, "meets or exceeds all specifications." They : >have Lubrimatic TCW-III for $8 a gallon. : > : >>>snip : > : > : >An outboard mechanic explained it to me like this: : They may MEET all requirements but the name brands will EXCEED : the requirements. Spercifically ash residue. Mercury Quicksliver : has the lowest ash residue of any of them. I don't think any of the : others would void your warranty but...... : I have a 150 V6 and it doesn't use that much oil, about a gallon for : every tank (40 gal) of gas. I figure I can buy a lot of $20 a gallon : oil for the $8-9000 cost of a new engine. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Harry Krause Krause & Associates, Inc. Post Office Box 7575 Jacksonville, Florida 32244 hkrause@gate.net or (904)350-1648
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: ref@bga.com (ref) Date: 1995/07/19 Message-Id: <3ui5kl$h8s@edwin.bga.com> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ui0k8$dej@news.halcyon.com> Organization: Real/Time Communications - Bob Gustwick and Associates Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
In article <3ui0k8$dej@news.halcyon.com>, Bill Peacock <billp@halcyon.com<> wrote: >>An outboard mechanic explained it to me like this: > >They may MEET all requirements but the name brands will EXCEED >the requirements. Spercifically ash residue. Mercury Quicksliver >has the lowest ash residue of any of them. I don't think any of the >others would void your warranty but...... I was in Walmart tonight and looked more closely at the labels for their house brand, Lubrimatic, and Quicksilver TCW-III oils. They all say, "EXCEEDS WARRANTY REQUIREMENTS." They also all claim to be ashless. ======================================================================= .... \ ................................................................ ..... \ ..........................................RON MORGAN........... ...... \ .............|......................................................ref@bga.com.......... ....... \ ........___/| _________________ ........Austin,Texas......... ..... ___\________|___|/__/__/__/__/__/...........NRA-LSBA-GCCA........ .....|- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - /.....http://www.realtime.net/~ref/ .....\ INNER CIRCLE--------------/................................... =======================================================================
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: bc@news.gate.net (Bob Curtis) Date: 1995/07/19 Message-Id: <bc.806158458@gate.net> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ui0k8$dej@news.halcyon.com> <3ui5kl$h8s@edwin.bga.com> Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
ref@bga.com (ref) writes: >Bill Peacock <billp@halcyon.com> wrote: >>>An outboard mechanic explained it to me like this: >> >I was in Walmart tonight and looked more closely at the labels for >their house brand, Lubrimatic, and Quicksilver TCW-III oils. They >all say, "EXCEEDS WARRANTY REQUIREMENTS." They also all claim to >be ashless. But does exceeding a MINIMUM requirement make the cheap oils as good as the more refined, (and more expensive) oils? One bowl of "Total" exceeds the Minimum daily requirement of vitamins set by the USDA - does that mean one bowl of cereal per day, with no additional food is a healthy diet? - No. Minimums are minimums, not an indication of relative quality. I'd like to know _what_ these minimum requirements are, and what the exact specifications _are_ on a few of these oils. Anyone? -- Bob Curtis <bc@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: brydon@orca.ssd.loral.com (Louis B. Brydon) Date: 1995/07/19 Message-Id: <brydon-1907951442590001@brydonl.ssd.loral.com> Sender: news@ssd.loral.com References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ui0k8$dej@news.halcyon.com> <3ui5kl$h8s@edwin.bga.com> <bc.806158458@gate.net> Organization: Space System/LORAL Newsgroups: rec.boats
I just bought Chevron Delo 400 30w for $6.75/Gallon in cases of six (6). I bought two cases thru my local marine distributor. Delo 400 has been 'widely' recommended to me by people I respect and 'exceeds' the so-called requirements for my Ford Diesel engines. They also make a multi-grade version of Delo 400, but I won't get in to why I like straight 30w. I would consider the Chevron product to be more reliable than some generic from Walmart/'Discounts are us'. I'm not convinced that one must spend $10-20/Gal for some 'Marine' grade oil. If I was going to do that I'd buy Synthetic oil. I believe synthetics are much better than filtered dinasour juice, but figure that for my older main diesels I'm better off to just change the oil/filter more often (~100hrs). In my 'newer' (100 hrs) Genset I do in fact use Mobil-1 10-30w because it only holds a few quarts (instead of 14) and I think the service hours are more harsh. Just my $0.02 -- Louis B. Brydon brydon@orca.ssd.loral.com WA6OCZ SEASTAR - Redwood City, Ca, Ba, USA, Terra, Sol, Milkyway
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: rttdch@corsair.tacom.army.mil (Doug Hedberg) Date: 1995/07/19 Message-Id: <3uinff$ouq@VTC.TACOM.Army.Mil> Distribution: world References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ui0k8$dej@news.halcyon.com> Organization: US Army Tank-Automotive Command Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater Originator: rttdch@mosquito.tacom.army.mil
The club that I am in most people run Merc's from 150-225 XRi. For the past two seasons I know that two of these peole have only used OMC TCW-III and have never had a problem. The reason is that we have a local dealer that sells bulk OMC TCW-III for 9.95 a gallon. This dealer also claims that OMC and Quicksilver are the same, except for the die that is added. He told me that both come from Gulf oil, and he knows of dealers getting OMC oil in Quicksilver jugs, and Quicksilver in OMC jugs. I have an 150 Intruder and he told me I could run either of these with no warranty problems, just don't buy the cheap stuff. For $2.00 dollars a gallon difference I will continue to buy bulk from him. The one thing I can't figure out is if OMC and Quicksilver are the same, why is the best price on bulk Quicksivler in $13-14 range?
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: ed@ada1.ssd.csd.harris.com (Ed Kelly) Date: 1995/07/23 Message-Id: <3uulal$9de@hawk.hcsc.com> References: <3uh35f$a61@maria.bga.com> <3ui0k8$dej@news.halcyon.com> Organization: Harris CSD, Ft. Lauderdale, FL Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
In article <3ui0k8$dej@news.halcyon.com> billp@halcyon.com (Bill Peacock) writes: > >I have a 150 V6 and it doesn't use that much oil, about a gallon for >every tank (40 gal) of gas. I figure I can buy a lot of $20 a gallon >oil for the $8-9000 cost of a new engine. Should be using less than that - I don't think any injection system uses more than a 50:1 ratio. Unless you run wide open all the time you should be using less than that. In South Florida many dealers buy oil in bulk (55-gallon drums) and will refill used oil containers for significantly less than the price of an original 1-gallon container. I believe I pay $10-99 a gallon for OMC TCW-III oil - I have seen it as low as $7-99. kA-- Ed Kelly
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: casacass@aol.com (CasaCass) Date: 1995/07/21 Message-Id: <3uo7v5$oh8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com References: <3unuf4$2530@hopi.gate.net> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Reply-To: casacass@aol.com (CasaCass) Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
I buy my TCW-III oil from a Boater's World store for around $9 a gallon. The store manager told me that according to the buyers for the company that there are only two refineries in the U.S. that make the stuff and all labels are a product of one or the other plant and the specs are identical. I can't say how factual this. I have a 16 flats boat with a Merc 90 and my father in law has a 16fter with a Yamaha 90. I use lubramatic and he has yamalube for his. His engine smokes less than mine. Other than that we can't notice any difference. Of coarse his engine has 1800+ hours on it and mine 300 so maybe time will tell. Dave Cassidy Naples, Florida CasaCass@AOL.com
Subject: Re: Cheap vs. expensive TCW-III oils From: jharlow@freenet.vcu.edu Date: 1995/07/26 Message-Id: <3v6si8$l97@freenet.vcu.edu> Distribution: world Organization: Central Virginia's Free-Net Newsgroups: rec.boats,alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater
> >They may MEET all requirements but the name brands will EXCEED >the requirements. Spercifically ash residue. Mercury Quicksliver >has the lowest ash residue of any of them. I don't think any of the >others would void your warranty but...... Interestingly enough, the manufacturer of my SeaDoo (I know - yuck, a PWC) recommends use of a low ash oil - NOT an ashless type - go figure. -- John Harlow jharlow@freenet.vcu.edu PO Box 8858 Richmond VA 23225 USA
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