Recognizing and Dealing With Vendetta in rec.boatsby RBBI PART 2 |
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Recognizing and Dealing With Vendetta in rec.boatsby RBBI PART 2 |
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Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 From: James Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: DISNEY / BRUNSWICK / WATERMOUSE CONSPIRACY THEORY EXPOSED! jf1234@my-dejanews.com wrote: > As a cast member of WDW who has worked at the resort marinas. [introductory clause punctuated as if it were a sentence] > I know like others, > the history of the watermouse project and > people involved, including the executive branch. This topic is filled with postings that contain the same grammatical error as demonstrated above. The messages are all from different senders, yet all contain the same error in grammar. This consistency make me think that the same person is writing most of these messages, but he uses different names or e-mail addresses to attempt to hide that fact.
Date: 25 Aug 1998 From: Cacorder Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: DISNEY / BRUNSWICK / WATERMOUSE CONSPIRACY THEORY EXPOSED! Thanks for clearing this up for me guys. I did not notice the path on the msgs. Disney still sucks though.
Date: 25 Aug 1998 From: Sven Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: DISNEY / BRUNSWICK / WATERMOUSE CONSPIRACY THEORY EXPOSED! You'll be happy to know, that paulson posted his story to the Disney stock message board, and got zero response.
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 From: Gary S Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: DISNEY / BRUNSWICK / WATERMOUSE CONSPIRACY THEORY EXPOSED! >Thanks jf1234. Great to finally hear somebody concur with Paulsons words. He's concurring w/ himself: Jmiller8210 Message-ID: <6q7gpf$37v$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> boatnews1 Message-ID: <6q7gpf$37v$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> jf1234 Message-ID: <6q7gpf$37v$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> upinews1 Message-ID: <6q7gpf$37v$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> All the same guy. Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach, Florida
Date: 25 Aug 1998 15:23:11 GMT From: Sven Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: DISNEY / BRUNSWICK / WATERMOUSE CONSPIRACY THEORY EXPOSED! Cacorder wrote: > Thanks jf1234. Great to finally hear somebody concur with > Paulsons words. Just one more reason (among millions) that > not one dollar of my money goes to Disney. And by Disney, you mean ALL of Disney, right? Mirimax Films, Buena Vista films, ABC, ESPN, A&E, Lifetime, InfoSpace...
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 From: Brian Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: DISNEY / BRUNSWICK / WATERMOUSE CONSPIRACY THEORY EXPOSED! blue wrote: > Some people in this newgroup don't get it yet. jf1234 IS Paulson. He is > verifying his own story and roping more people into his outrageous story. > Paulson has about as much credibility in this newsgroup as Clinton has > with the American public. > His credibility is that high, huh?
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 From: upinews1@aol.com Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: DISNEY / BRUNSWICK / WATERMOUSE CONSPIRACY THEORY EXPOSED! ------ In response to this newsgroup regarding the watermouse story.. I agree my delivery in a news format may be a bit rough to some and painful for others. The information is truthful and forthright supported by the host of sources who e-mail me on a daily basis. I do not post anything that I can't verify and do not endorse any product or person, it just that simple. Thank you JF1234 for your support ...and don't worry about the respondents negativity. Most of there comments are expected. On a special note: All of the information I recieve via email regarding the WaterMouse story is forwarded to approximately 100 selected news sources around the country snipping the senders e-mail address. If anyone in this newsgroup has any information pertaining to the WaterMouse story, the location of a "jeti" boat that was offered to Disney or any other relevent information please send me a personal email at Jpaulson01@aol.com. Thank You, Respectfully, John Paulson Upinews1
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 From: upinews1@aol.com Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: DISNEY / BRUNSWICK / WATERMOUSE CONSPIRACY THEORY EXPOSED! me wrote: > He's concurring w/ himself: > > Jmiller8210 Message-ID: <6q7gpf$37v$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> > boatnews1 Message-ID: <6q7gpf$37v$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> > jf1234 Message-ID: <6q7gpf$37v$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> > upinews1 Message-ID: <6q7gpf$37v$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> > > All the same guy. > > Capt. Gary S. ---- ----- --- Nice try captain blye, I guess it's always easier to lie! I think the people in this newsgroup are a little to smart for your copy and paste technique...
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 From: Giles Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: DISNEY / BRUNSWICK / WATERMOUSE CONSPIRACY THEORY EXPOSED! upinews1@aol.com wrote >I agree my delivery in a news format may be a bit rough to some and painful >for others Not to mention being a fairly obvious attampt to invest it with an authority and claim to impartiality that does not exist. UPI indeed! Giles FBI (that's: fellow bored with ignoramuses -- no connection with any organization with a similar acronym)
From: Marcus Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: DISNEY / BRUNSWICK / WATERMOUSE CONSPIRACY THEORY EXPOSED! Sven wrote: > You'll be happy to know, that paulson posted his story to the Disney > stock message board, and got zero response. Well, I dunno if I'm *happy* about that. If kids are getting cut to pieces by outboard propellers at a theme park, this is not good, and I wouldn't be happy if it were true. The message Paulsen brings may be of import. On the other hand, it seems that Paulsen has in many cases simply shouted down his detractors. This removes focus from the message and places in on the messenger. In this day and age, my BS detector goes off at a pretty low level, and I am jaded and cynical about the credibility of the messenger who engages in such practice. And those who engage in overt deception (to coin a phrase) are immediately suspect. Marcus
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 From: upinews1@aol.com Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: DISNEY - BRUNSWICK - WATERMOUSE INFO! In response to this newsgroup regarding the watermouse story.. I agree my delivery in a news format may be a bit rough to some and painful for others. The information is truthful and forthright supported by the host of sources who e-mail me on a daily basis. I do not post anything that I can't verify and do not endorse any product or person, it just that simple. Thank you JF1234 for your support ...and don't worry about the respondents negativity. Most of there comments are expected. On a special note: All of the information I recieve via email regarding the WaterMouse story is forwarded to approximately 100 selected news sources around the country snipping the senders e-mail address. If anyone in this newsgroup has any information pertaining to the WaterMouse story, the location of a "jeti" boat that was offered to Disney or any other relevent information please send me a personal email at Jpaulson01@aol.com. Thank You, Respectfully, John Paulson Upinews1
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 From: upinews1@aol.com Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: DISNEY - BRUNSWICK - WATERMOUSE NEWS! TO: DISNEY CAST MEMBERS READING THE WATERMOUSE STORY: All of the information I recieve via email regarding the WaterMouse story is forwarded to approximately 100 selected news sources around the country snipping the senders e-mail address. If anyone has any information pertaining to the WaterMouse story, the location of a "jeti" boat that was offered to Disney or any other relevent information please send me a personal email at Jpaulson01@aol.com. Thank You, Respectfully, John Paulson Upinews1
Date: 26 Aug 1998 From: JJames Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: DISNEY / BRUNSWICK / WATERMOUSE CONSPIRACY THEORY EXPOSED! You are John Paulson and you should go bother somebody else. This news group is not interested. Posting as different people though dejanews is a bit transparent.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 From: Gary S. Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: DISNEY / BRUNSWICK / WATERMOUSE CONSPIRACY THEORY EXPOSED! >> Jmiller8210 Message-ID: <6q7gpf$37v$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> >> boatnews1 Message-ID: <6q7gpf$37v$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> >> jf1234 Message-ID: <6q7gpf$37v$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> >> upinews1 Message-ID: <6q7gpf$37v$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> >> >> All the same guy. >> >> Capt. Gary S. >> West Palm Beach, Florida > All the posts under those names have the same the same Message ID. I never lie. (an occasional tall tale perhaps..... ) >Nice try captain blye, I guess it's always easier to lie! Uh, huh....... and it's Bligh, an extraordinary sailor by the way. I wish I had his navigational ability, fortitude and resolve.Thanks for the compliment though. >I think the people in this newsgroup are a little to smart for your copy and >paste technique. ...and to be hosed by this nonsense of yours. This is the best troll I've come accross so far. Even better than Harry K's "Over the Line". Harry is quite real though, and does not intend to misslead or deceive. happy trolling........ Capt. Gary S.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 From: boatnews1@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Disney's Watermouse Propellers have injured! Marcus wrote: > If kids are getting cut to pieces by outboard propellers at a theme > park, this is not good, and I wouldn't be happy if it were true. The > message Paulsen brings may be of import. In reply to Marcus: PROPELLER GUARD STATISTICS AT DISNEY: During the 20 years that Disney utilized the propeller guards on the original WaterSprite. There was never a reported injury caused by the propeller or propeller guard itself (sources: public information), with the\ exception of one boy who was hit in the head by the guard out of the water with the engine at a high RPM. According to sources, the father of the boy credited the propeller guard for saving his sons life or at least his face and did not seek litigation. The debate is not, why ? or why not ? use a propeller guard. The question is why at this late date has Disney & Mercury Marine decided to remove the propeller guards from Bay Lake rental operations after a twenty year history of preventing injuries by using it and in light of the 9 people that have been injured by propellers out the 15 WaterMouse accidents this year compared to "zero" with the WaterSprite in the past twenty years? According to sources, Disney and Mercury Marine are justifying their decision in removing the guard for three (3) reasons 1. Mercury sells motors around the world and does not what to set a precedence by marketing a boat to the general public with a propeller guard, despite its proven safety track record at Disney. 2. This year, the Supreme Court refused to hear a case involving the propeller guard issue which was later settled out of court, giving manufacturers some temporarily relief. 3. There have been studies sponsored by marine engine manufacturers that sends mixed signals regarding propeller guard benefits, thus stalling legislation to mandate propeller guards. It is important to note, that Disney is unlike any other place in the world. Once a person walks through the gates and sprinkled with pixie dust, they become immortal and believe nothing at Disney is dangerous or unsafe. This inducement promotes a carefree atmosphere and irresponsible behavior. For this reason and this reason alone, Disney should set aside the status que, review there own rental boat statistics and make the necessary changes to de-tuned, replaced or redesigned the WaterMouse. By doing nothing, will only increase the chances of lawsuits, which in turn brings the WaterMouse scandal to a new level, which in turn raises issues of intent, which in turns brings together all of the background facts to support the gross and willful negligence issues, which in turn raises the potential of a class action suit being filed, which could result in punitive damages in the hundreds of millions of dollars thus impacting Disney's stock and image. No company can afford that kind of loss just to spare the director of recreation (according to JF1234 post) who masterminded this WaterMouse disaster. Even if he was hand picked by the President of Disney (according to sources) who I am certain wants to avoid the embarrassment of this entire incident. John Paulson Upinews boatnews@my-dejanews.com
Date: 27 Aug 1998 From: JJames Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's Watermouse Propellers have injured! This guy is a kook. Ignore him and he will go away. Encourage him and he will be cluttering up the newsgroup forever.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 From: Dave Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's Watermouse Propellers have injured! After seeing a few of your many posts about this subject, I only have one question. What in the hell is a Watermouse? Dave
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 From: Larry Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's Watermouse Propellers have injured! boatnews1@my-dejanews.com wrote: > >The debate is not, why ? or why not ? use a propeller guard. The question is >why at this late date has Disney & Mercury Marine decided to remove the >propeller guards from Bay Lake rental operations after a twenty year history >of preventing injuries by using it and in light of the 9 people that have >been injured by propellers out the 15 WaterMouse accidents this year compared >to "zero" with the WaterSprite in the past twenty years? > If they had any brains, it'd be powered by a little Sport Jet instead of a dangerous prop guard or no guard. At 9 or 15 hp, and 15 mph, even the water outlet from the jet wouldn't be very hard.....unlike my 175hp Merc Sport Jet V-6...
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 From: upinews1@aol.com Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's Watermouse Propellers have injured! Mark wrote: > Give it a rest, will you? You're just some (deleted by RBBI) who > didn't get a contract he wanted with Disney. Get over it. In Response: Sounds like you are one of offended? Keep posting! John Paulson boatnews1@my-dejanews.com
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 From: Bryon To: boatnews1@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's Watermouse Propellers have injured! boatnews1@my-dejanews.com wrote: > > PROPELLER GUARD STATISTICS AT DISNEY: > (snip) If people allow their children to swim around powerboats they need their parental rights examined. My family has been in boating since the fifties without any incidence at my yacht club or others in our area from prop injuries. Yes theme parks need to be vigilant in protecting their patrons. The need for guards for every rotating object would bankrupt all manufacturers of all machinery. A recent parallel. The Hathaway Winch Co was driven backrupt when a 90yr old winch they built mangled a fisherman. The winch was designed for and had a guard over the gears. It was missing but that did not exempt Hathaway from getting sued into non existance. Get with it people! Keep your kids, and your own body parts away from rotating machinery. And when it the unfortunate happens deal with it without dropping blame where it will destroy our economy. They way things are going we will not have any recreational products if the lawyers and plaintiffs get it all. Insurance costs are getting very bad for us all. Where boats are concerned look at the jet ski. It has a ducted prop is very versatile in the correct hands. THe only problem is that they are going to be history soon due to a few no brainers who are killing it for the rest of us. Bryon
Date: 28 Aug 1998 From: Marcus Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's Watermouse Propellers have injured! Larry wrote: > If they had any brains, it'd be powered by a little Sport Jet > instead of a dangerous prop guard or no guard. At 9 or 15 hp, and > 15 mph, even the water outlet from the jet wouldn't be very > hard.....unlike my 175hp Merc Sport Jet V-6... Other than the massive expense of tooling a jet drive for the Merc 9.9/15HP outboard, there would be little to stop them from this. Disney Land (in CA) or one of the other theme parks in that area (might have been Six Flags) had these bumper boats powered by a 4 HP outboard jet, placed just inside the transom. The powerhead was a 4 HP Aero Marine unit, whose OEM was McCulloch. I'm going from memory here. It could be that the lower unit and prop were stock items for the outboard, and that they simply fitted a duct around the prop with a steerable nozzle at the rear. The driveshaft housing was shorter than the stock outboard, though, judging from the powerhead-to-nozzle distance. The transom may have had an indentation, or tunnel, arising from the hull bottom, such that the jet pump was outside the hull but didn't protrude much beneath the bottom. Other than the fact that you were a 9 year old piloting a motorized water vehicle for perhaps the first time in your life, the ride was unremarkable. Maneuverability was crappy, top speed was maybe 1 to 2 knots, all of which you'd expect from a puny 4 HP jet pump whose nozzle steers by 45 degrees to port or starboard. Top that off with the hull which was a big fiberglass dish surrounded by a big innertube, not exactly meant for speed. Today's jaded kids would probably go "ho hum." To get a ride equal to a 9.9 HP prop drive outboard, a 15, 20, maybe even 25 HP powerhead on a jet drive would have to be fitted. At least it could be designed with a clean sheet of paper, not some ginned-up contraption that attempts to use a box-stock outboard. A prop guard is a surprisingly simple way to make an outboard into a a good argument for sail power as a faster alternative. Not to mention, if you've ever bounced your hand off of a spinning fan, you know it can hurt. If you've ever had part of you sucked into a DUCTED fan, you know it tends to grab you, hold you, draw as much of you through as it can--whole or in pieces--till someone cuts the power or otherwise ends your misery. I don't see why Disney couldn't accomplish Larry's idea in conjunction with Brunswick without contracting with Paulsen's business partners.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 From: mudfly Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: UPINEWS? no such org. upinews1@aol.com wrote: > I agree my delivery in a news format may be a bit rough to some and > painful for others. The information is truthful and forthright supported > by the host of sources who e-mail me on a daily basis. I do not post > anything that I can't verify and do not endorse any product or person, > it just that simple. Man this guy must have have got a bad room at Disney on his vacation! he has posted in this group using at least 3 different names and attemps to lend himself credibilty by insinuating he is connected to a news organization.An internet search turns up 0 for UPINEWS, A friend who is an editor for Newsday and also views this news group said UPINEWS does not exist. This boy needs to get a life! I hope he covered his tracks well, Disney's legal dept would have a field day with him!
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 From: Joseph J Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Disney... STOP already!!! This whole anti-Brunswick/Disney thread is a bunch of BS. Drive like a jerk and be prepared for the consequences. The lawyers will get rich on the whole deal. I was in Orlando last May and saw ***'s horsing around and driving under docks etc. with little rental boats. It was in the lake by the Boardwalk complex behind Epcot and the Swan/Dolphin. It is doubtful if the messages here will alter the behavior of jerks.
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 From: boatnews1@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy! ***News Bulletin*** (AUG 31,1998) Sources close to Central Florida Hospitals are saying accidents involving Disney's WaterMouse boats have kept them busy claiming a half a dozen victims this month alone. A lot of the which have been young adults and children. John Paulson Upinews1
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 From: Harry Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy! boatnews1@my-dejanews.com wrote: > ***News Bulletin*** > > (AUG 31,1998) Sources close to Central Florida Hospitals are saying > accidents involving Disney's WaterMouse boats have kept them busy > (snip) > "Sources close to central Florida hospitals?" As in, the guys behind the counter at the nearby 7-11? So, John, when, precisely, were you fired by Disney?
Date: 1 Sep 1998 From: Lee Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy! >(AUG 31,1998) Sources close to Central Florida Hospitals are saying > accident involving Disney's WaterMouse boats have kept them busy > (snip) Previously, you told us a gentleman named Jeremy (last name deleted by RBBI) was run over and injured by one of these boats. On what date, and to what hospital was he taken?
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 From: Cameron Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy! boatnews1@my-dejanews.com wrote: > ...claiming a (sic) half a dozen victims this month alone. A lot of the > (sic) which (sic) have been young adults and children. That's my favorite part of the "Press Release". The clause "claiming victims" conjures up images of tornadoes, plane crashes, etc. Appeal to emotion continues with the reference to children. Sheesh. I'll jump on the bandwagon with my own press release: "Sources semi-close to Little League Baseball report that the carnage continues unabated, with over 200 victims claimed this month alone, all young, helpless children!" (Translation: 150 strawberries, 35 skinned knees, and 15 unclassified boo-boos.) Happy boating! Cameron
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 From: Charles Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy! It seems that if the Watermouse is really such a danger and causing so many injuries, attorneys for the injured would be having a field day. Lets see . . . $1,000,000 per accident . . . naw, Disney has deep pockets, make that $100,000,000. Don't you think that with this kind of liability exposure Disney would have cleaned up their act if there really was such a problem?
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 From: boatnews1@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy! brian wrote: > Hey John, > If the cases involve personal injury and damage, they are required to be > reported. Since the accident reports are a matter of public record > through the USCG or the Florida State authorities, perhaps you could > cite something a little more authorative than "sources close to". > > If you cannot provide these, please go away. --------- In response to: brian Just how long do you think it would take for any of these organizations mentioned to fire any of our sources once revealed. The sources are obviously people inside these organizations who volunteer this information and do not want to be known. It's just that simple. John Paulson
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 From: boatnews1@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy! Harry wrote: > "Sources close to central Florida hospitals?" As in, the guys behind the counter > at the nearby 7-11? > So, John, when, precisely, were you fired by Disney? In response to: Harry The real problem is that more people, including innocent children are getting seriously injured with the WaterMouse boat compared to the original WaterSprite all of which were preventable. Is everyone in this rec.boat newsgroup "OK" with that? John Paulson
Date: 2 Sep 1998 From: Gould Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy! John Paulson wrote: > Sources close to Central Florida Hospitals are saying accidents > involving Disney's WaterMouse boats have kept them busy John's probably right. How much "closer" to a (mental) hospital could one be than to be a patient there?
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 From: Harry Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy! boatnews1@my-dejanews.com wrote: > In response to: Harry Krause > > The real problem is that more people, including innocent children are getting > seriously injured with the WaterMouse boat compared to the original > WaterSprite all of which were preventable. Is everyone in this rec.boat > newsgroup "OK" with that? > > John Paulson The *real* problem is that the vague accidents you mention are not showing up in the Orlando newspaper or any other legitimate news outlets. These news outlets report "bad" news about Disney World when there is news to report, so the fact that only you seem to have these stories makes them and you suspect. Further, I've been to Disney World many times, and I have noted carefully the attention paid to keeping visitors comfortable and safe. If there were serious, on-going problems with these little boats, Disney World would have beached them until a reliable, safe solution was found. No one at Disney corporate is going to jeopardize the cash cow for a bunch of cheesy little plastic boats.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 From: Lyle Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy! boatnews1@my-dejanews.com wrote in message >In response to: brian >Just how long do you think it would take for any of these organizations >mentioned to fire any of our sources once revealed. The sources are >obviously people inside these organizations who volunteer this information >and do not want to be known. It's just that simple. "Our sources?" Who is this "we" to whom you refer? The USCG reports to which he referred are a matter of public record and do not require "sources" to obtain them. While you are clearly trying to make it sound as if you are part of a real news organization of some sort, this sort of tripe makes it clear that you are just a crank with a vendetta to pursue. No one is going to buy into the idea that Disney is operating a seagoing butcher shop with their boats and no one but you has ever heard a single word about it.
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 From: Brian Grant Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy! boatnews1@my-dejanews.com wrote: > In response to: brian > Just how long do you think it would take for any of these organizations > mentioned to fire any of our sources once revealed. The sources are > obviously people inside these organizations who volunteer this > information and do not want to be known. It's just that simple. I did not ask you to reveal your sources. Personal Injury accidents on boats are required, by law, to be reported. Even if they were not reported to USCG or Florida authorities, the EMT calls would be a matter of public record. While checking all of your covert sources obviously involves a lot of your time, perhaps you could dedicate a little to investigating the public record and posting authorative cites.
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 From: Big Jim Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy! boatnews1@my-dejanews.com wrote: >In response to: Harry >The real problem is that more people, including innocent children are getting >seriously injured with the WaterMouse boat compared to the original >WaterSprite all of which were preventable. Is everyone in this rec.boat >newsgroup "OK" with that? > >John Paulson You really do strain our credulity here. I worked in the Ammusment industry for a while and there is one simple fact: Rides that hurt people are not operated. The insurance companies see to that. If an injury producing situation truly existed at Disney, by the time the second claim was entered, the insurance company would be independently investigating. They would not be influenced by anybody. Any ride that causes personal injury could never make a profit after subtracting damage payments. The insurance companies have far more say about what will happen in those circumstances than Eisner himself.
Date: 3 Sep 1998 From: Gould Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy! Hey, wait, wait! The watermouse just landed on my lawn. Little green men are getting out and blasting the crap out of the neighborhood with ray guns. One of them looks just like Walt! Run for your lives, It's the watermouse! Hundreds dead or dying as a result of the latest invasion........and now for a word from our sponsor.
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998
From: Bob
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy!
> >(AUG 31,1998) Sources close to Central Florida Hospitals are saying accidents
> >involving Disney's WaterMouse boats have kept them busy claiming a half a
> >dozen victims this month alone. A lot of the which have been young adults
> >and children.
Why do you people waste your time with this moron? Clearly
he has an ax to grind and by now everyone knows he's full of ****.
Stop replying to this idiot and he'll go away. There are no "Sources
close to" and no professional media is covering any of this. This yutz
is making this up for his own twisted bitter purposes. Leave it alone
and he'll soon get bored and move one.
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 From: Brian Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy! Bob wrote: > Why do you people waste your time with this moron? Clearly > he has an ax to grind and by now everyone knows he's full of ****. Every now and again you see a nail standing up that just cries out to be whacked with a hammer.
Date: 3 Sep 1998 From: Marcus Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: Disney's WaterMouse are keeping Central Florida Hospitals busy! Bob wrote: > Why do you people waste your time with this moron? Clearly > he has an ax to grind and by now everyone knows he's full of ****. Now, here's an image you have evoked that just might top that of the waterborne meat grinders at DizzyWorld. Moron. Axe. Grind. ****. You can use your own imagination.
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 From: boatnews1@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Who's next in line for Disney's WaterMouse boats? Bob wrote: > > Previously, you told us a gentleman named ***** Feakins > > was run over and injured by one of these boats. > > On what date, and to what hospital was he taken? > Why do you people waste your time with this moron? Clearly > he has an ax to grind and by now everyone knows he's full > of ****. > Stop replying to this idiot and he'll go away. There are > no "Sources close to" and no professional media is covering > any of this. This yutz is making this up for his own twisted > bitter purposes. Leave it alone and he'll soon get bored and > move one. In Response: ACCIDENT DATE: March 13th, 1998 ACCIDENT NO. 2 TOTAL ACCIDENTS: 17 at the end of August 1998. VICTIM: Mr. (snip) Feakins (snip) REPORT: Mr. Feakins was hit broadside by another boat driven by a young boy, knocking him into the water, he then was run over by another boat driven by a young girl. PARAMEDICS: Reedy Creek HOSPITAL: Sand Lake Hospital, Turkey Lake Road, Orlando, Florida John Paulson
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RBBI Discussion |
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First, hats off to the seasoned vets who sniffed out the true purpose of the posts. They rapidly alerted others to think twice about what the poster said and why he may have posted it.
Second, the problem the poster is drawing attention to may or may not be real. Our intent here is only to show how one might determine the poster's intent and not be misled to believe the posts were true "news center" postings.
Third, many of the techniques to spot a "vendetta" discussed below, were also mentioned by others in the news group. I am not claiming to be the originator of all of these ideas.
The very first August 4th post that "declares the message" came from upi1news@aol.com. Doesn't it sound a little odd that UPI does not have its own server and its correspondents are using AOL?. I immediately checked UPI and other press wires using the news search function on the Infoseek search engine http://www.infoseek.com and the newspage and found no mention of this "article." UPI is obviously a bogus prefix in an attempt to give credentials to the "article".
Additionally, how often do we see journalist from UPI, AP or other wire services publishing their latest stories to rec.boats? Get real! I have seen a few journalist comment on stories posted in newsgroups or request input for a story, but I do not recall ever seeing one post copyrighted material belonging to their employer.
The follow up message containing detailed full names, addresses and phone numbers of those injured clearly indicated this post did not come from a news professional. Inclusion of those details indicates either the poster is new to the net or does not care about privacy. Their response after it was pointed out was not, "Gee I'm sorry", but right back to "BC is evil."
Also note, jmiller8210 begins his note to John Paulson with:
To: John Paulson - UPINEWS1 Dear John,As if he is writing a letter. This is almost never seen in newsgroups. Then notice the exact same technique being used in later messages from John Paulson. When he responds to a particular message, he copies it, then says:
To: gouldor
To: blueIt strikes me "odd" that both jmiller8210 and John Paulson use this extremely rare technique.
Later on, John Paulson returns to using upi1news@aol.com. He sure does move around a lot!
Continuing references by the poster indicate their message is what is important. It does not matter they posted several people's personal addresses and phone numbers, attempted to mislead others with the UPI prefix, and they almost acknowledge the jmiller8210 hoax. All this is ok so long as their message is heard.
When repeatedly asked to supply external sources to verify his claims or verification of his association with UPI, John Paulson ducked the requests. One time he responded with:
With regard to our sources, every executive at Disney, Brunswick and Mercury Marine that are involved with the Watermouse project, have got their monitors glued to this story and probably on a witch hunt by know looking for the source's leaking such pertinent information.This response has absolutely no bearing upon the issue of verifying his information. The statement also grossly over estimates his impact upon the group he wishes to malign. This is commonly done by those conducting a vendetta.
You also begin to detect a little paranoia as John Paulson begins to declare those who question his posts as members of the "bad guys".
Posts from Deja-News or other similar instantly free e-mail addresses should raise a red flag. Someone carrying out a vendetta can post anonymously by creating a free e-mail account, making a few posts, and moving on.
Newbies on the web are much more likely to try to carry out a vendetta. Others have seen them come and go and realize they are usually seen for what they are. Many tips in the messages indicate the poster is a newbie. In addition there is no record of prior posts from John Paulson by Dejanews.. My favorite came in after we initially posted this article. His August 17th post says:
"... sources being quoted throughout the Watermouse string."
He used the word "string" for "thread" when referring to the collection of posts. This definitely indicates a newbie. Certainly not a seasoned UPI newsperson.
His use of ALLCAPS in the August 19th message is another newbie tip.
Brunswick is unique in the industry in that it is actually composed of many companies. "Brunswick" itself is a paper operation that brings all the companies together under the stock symbol and attempts to manage them to generate stockholder profits. "Brunswick" does not actually make anything, manufacturing occurs at companies it owns. "Brunswick" and other conglomerates normally shrug off attacks like this and just ignore them. Brunswick has been around 150 years, this is not the first time someone has thrown mud at them or the last, but they know they will still be around long after the mudslinger is forgotten. They do not view an individual's vendetta as a threat. They may not have even been aware of this one as it was happening.
We can easily envision what would have happened if Brunswick directly entered the discussion. The attacker would have gotten even more riled up and badgered them endlessly. It was wise not to get involved in this one. There are other situations in which users have some real questions or want a real statement that I think should be answered on line, but a vendetta is not one of them.
Smaller companies are much more likely to let an "attacker" get under their skin and get involved in an online argument.
"Most of the detailed Watermouse information received to date describes conflicts of interest, corruption, deceptive business practices, collusion and conspiracy between the parties. "
That sounds very much like a disgrunted promoter of an alternative craft.
Gary
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