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Subject: TCW III oils From: sailor@vnet.net (J. Ravenel) Date: 1996/02/08 Message-Id: <4fdihq$8ev@ralph.vnet.net> Organization: Vnet Internet Access, Charlotte, NC - info@char.vnet.net Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.boats
Does anyone have information on different TCW III oils (ex. Havoline vs. OMC)?
Subject: Re: TCW III oils From: obfixer <afn23311@afn.org> Date: 1996/02/09 Message-Id: <Pine.A32.3.91.960209075702.5246B-100000@freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu> References: <4fdihq$8ev@ralph.vnet.net> X-Sender: afn23311@freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.boats
On 8 Feb 1996, J. Ravenel wrote: > Does anyone have information on different TCW III oils (ex. Havoline vs. OMC)? > I'm sure some others will have a lot to say about this but I'll put in my 2 pennies worth....Most of the TCW3's are blended by the same oil companies to meet the requirements of the TCW3, however the engine manufacturers-OMC, Merc, Yamaha, Suzuki all (to the best of my knowledge) require additional ingredients to the basic formulae to improve performance of their oils to their specifications. In all the engines I rebuild for my customers I require them to be run on only the mfg.'s oils. These oils burn much cleaner and therefore leave less deposits of carbon and gummy residue in the combustion cahmbers and also have less tendency of causing the rings to stick in their lands, therefore increasing the life of the engine.
Subject: Re: TCW III oils From: Jim Swist <swist@nexen.com> Date: 1996/02/09 Message-Id: <4ffhog$lls@nexen.nexen.com> References: <4fdihq$8ev@ralph.vnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-Ascii Organization: Ascom Nexion Inc X-Url: news:4fdihq$8ev@ralph.vnet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.boats X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m)
sailor@vnet.net (J. Ravenel) wrote: >Does anyone have information on different TCW III oils (ex. Havoline vs. OMC)? > They are all the same. TCW-III is a spec put together by a consortium of the major engine builders. They want you to but their own overpriced brand and talk out of both sides of their mouths when they say that other oils made to the spec they helped write are somehow not as good.
Subject: Re: TCW III oils From: P. Hopwood <74401.330@CompuServe.COM> Date: 1996/02/10 Message-Id: <4fgpmt$qol$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com> References: <4ffhog$lls@nexen.nexen.com> Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) Newsgroups: rec.boats
PMFJ, the TCW3 specification is a minimum quality standard. There are many different oils that are superior to others. Some oils just meet the specification and others exceed it, sometimes by a large margin. All oils are NOT the same. The best ones are made by the motor manufacturers, who are blending the best oil to protect thier engines. Many other brands are made and sold solely for profits from oil sales. They don't always consider the protection of the engine and blend an oil that JUST meets the TCW3 specification. For all those that doubt this your mechanics love you. For those that want to see it for themselves, run a "cheap oil" through your motor for approximately 100 hours then take it apart and look, not only at the wear, but also the carbon build up. One final note. Find out what the cost of rebuilding your motor is. Then calculate how much "cheap oil" you would have to burn to save you the money it'll cost for a rebuild. Unless you are a commercial user you probably won't burn that much oil in your lifetime. Good luck, Peter Hopwood
Subject: Re: TCW III oils From: ste1@delphi.com Date: 1996/02/10 Message-Id: <hlCIxFu.ste1@delphi.com> References: <4ffhog$lls@nexen.nexen.com> <4fgpmt$qol$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com> Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) X-To: P. Hopwood <74401.330@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.boats
P. Hopwood <74401.330@CompuServe.COM> writes: >All oils are NOT the same. The best ones are made by the motor >manufacturers, who are blending the best oil to protect thier >engines. Many other brands are made and sold solely for profits Untrue. Engine manufacturers do not have oil refineries and blending labs. They hire out for this job to oil companies. Best Regards, Steve
Subject: Re: TCW III oils From: P. Hopwood <74401.330@CompuServe.COM> Date: 1996/02/11 Message-Id: <4fl6sa$p83$1@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> References: <hlCIxFu.ste1@delphi.com> Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) Newsgroups: rec.boats
Steve, while the motor companies do not have blending labs, as you said, they do stipulate the precise formula that the contracted oil company must blend to. This blend is then tested by independent labs to verify that they do meet the motor manufacturer's prescribed formula. If you doubt that there is a difference I recommend that you have two different brands analyzed. This will be the most accurate method. However, it can be VERY expensive. The fact is that there is a difference.
Subject: Re: TCW III oils
From: ste1@delphi.com
Date: 1996/02/09
Message-Id: <5lNqZ5c.ste1@delphi.com>
References: <4fdihq$8ev@ralph.vnet.net> <4ffhog$lls@nexen.nexen.com>
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
X-To: Jim Swist <swist@nexen.com>
Jim Swist <swist@nexen.com> writes:
>major engine builders. They want you to but their own overpriced brand and
>talk out of both sides of their mouths when they say that other oils made to
>the spec they helped write are somehow not as good.
You ain't just whislting Dixie! For an engine manufacturer to supposedly
*require* the use of a given brand of oil, *breaks Federal law*.
Steve
Subject: Re: TCW III oils From: ste1@delphi.com Date: 1996/02/09 Message-Id: <5lFoJFR.ste1@delphi.com> References: <4fdihq$8ev@ralph.vnet.net> <Pine.A32.3.91.960209075702.5246B-100000@freenet3.freenet.ufl.ed Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) X-To: obfixer <afn23311@afn.org> Newsgroups: rec.boats
obfixer <afn23311@afn.org> writes: >require additional ingredients to the basic formulae to improve >performance of thier oils to thier specifications. In all the engines I >rebuild for my customers I require them to be run on only the mfg.'s oils. Per the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, (a Federal law), you can not do this. You are breaking the law. No manufacturer of any equipment can *require* the use of a particular *brand* of oil to supposedly maintain any manufacturer warranty. The only out on this is if the equipment manufacturer is providing that *brand* of oil for *free* with the purchase price of the equipment in question. To maintain a warranty, all that is need is that the *rating* of the oil that the equipment manufacturer specifies, (like TCWIII), be maintained. Beyond that, you can use ANY lubricant you want. This is the law. Contact the Federal Trade Commission for verification. Best Regards, Steve
Subject: Re: TCW III oils From: obfixer <afn23311@afn.org> Date: 1996/02/10 Message-Id: <Pine.A32.3.91.960210065001.27415A-100000@freenet2.freenet.ufl.edu> References: <4fdihq$8ev@ralph.vnet.net> <Pine.A32.3.91.960209075702.5246B-100000@freenet3.freenet.ufl.ed <5lFoJFR.ste1@delphi.com> X-Sender: afn23311@freenet2.freenet.ufl.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.boats
TJ On Fri, 9 Feb 1996 ste1@delphi.comwrote: > obfixer <afn23311@afn.org> writes: > > >require additional ingredients to the basic formulae to improve > >performance of thier oils to thier specifications. In all the engines I > >rebuild for my customers I require them to be run on only the mfg.'s oils. > > Per the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, (a Federal law), you can not do this. > You are breaking the law. No manufacturer of any equipment can *require* > the use of a particular *brand* of oil to supposedly maintain any manufacturer > warranty. The only out on this is if the equipment manufacturer is providing > that *brand* of oil for *free* with the purchase price of the equipment in > question. > To maintain a warranty, all that is need is that the *rating* of the > oil that the equipment manufacturer specifies, (like TCWIII), be maintained. > Beyond that, you can use ANY lubricant you want. This is the law. > Contact the Federal Trade Commission for verification. > > Best Regards, > Steve I was not aware of that law and apologize to you for being ignorant of it. In the future I will stipulate that if engine damage is the result of excess carbon buildup or stuck rings due to the use of lesser quqlity oils, the damage may be excluded. The end result we are looking for is a longer life for the engine and most importantly a satisfied customer who brings repeat business and a few friends back with him- a situation I have seemed to accomplished with my liberal warranty policy, so far. Good Boating, Tom
Subject: Re: TCW III oils From: amsoill@aol.com (AMSOILL) Date: 1996/02/10 Message-Id: <4fijoe$aqe@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com References: <Pine.A32.3.91.960210065001.27415A-100000@freenet2.freenet.ufl. Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Reply-To: amsoill@aol.com (AMSOILL) Newsgroups: rec.boats
Hi Tim; Oil quality, (for warranty purposes), is determined by the ratings of the oil, like TCWIII. Not by the brand, for *warranty* purposes anyway. :-) Sincerely, Steve 7 year independent AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants Dealer ( full time by the way) <grin>
Subject: Re: TCW III oils From: ste1@delphi.com Date: 1996/02/10 Message-Id: <hHKLhVh.ste1@delphi.com> References: <4fdihq$8ev@ralph.vnet.net> <Pine.A32.3.91.960209075702.5246B-100000@freenet3.freenet.ufl.ed <5lFoJFR.ste1@deobfixer <afn23311@afn.org> writes: >I was not aware of that law and apologize to you for being ignorant of >it. In the future I will stipulate that if engine damage is the result of >excess carbon buildup or stuck rings due to the use of lesser quality >oils, the damage may be excluded. The end result we are looking for is a Per Federal law, the only quality you can stipulate is TCWIII, or whatever, rating. If an oil the consumer uses meets whateve rating is supposed to be used in their equipment, there warranty can not be legally voided. Check with the Federal Trade Commison and the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. I hope this helps. Best Regards, Stevelphi.com> <Pine.A32.3.91.960210065001.27415A-100000@freenet2.freenet.ufl.e Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) X-To: obfixer <afn23311@afn.org> Newsgroups: rec.boats
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