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Subject: TCW3 Outboard Oil (Are they all the same?) From: equipchase@minot.com (Ron Bertsch) Date: 1996/04/21 Message-Id: <4le1ua$69n@news.cpu.net> Organization: CPU.net Newsgroups: rec.boats
The following information was found in a publication from North Coast Oil Company, Inc. "NMMA TC-W3 Lubricants are a major improvement over TCWII fluids, both in water-cooled and air-coolde applications. With the introduction of the new TC-W3 additives, the additive companies, that once were skepitical of performance quality of TC-WII oils generally marketed for air-cooled applications, are now confident of adequate air-cooled, two-cycle engine protection, using their approved TC-W3 formulas. Therefore a true "Universal" two-cycle lubricant is now available UNTIL!! "JASO" and "GLOBAL" fluids are required." On the issue of brand X being better than brand Y and the engine maker that claims only their brand Z TCW3 oil can be used in their respective engines. TCW3 oil in itself is a specific formula. If the Oil lable states it is a TCW3 with an approval code of 3-15020 located above, below, or on either side of the TCW3 logo, it is the aproved oil for use this year in all outboard engines. Is one Brand of TCW3 coded 3-15020 better than the other. Yea, the one with the lower price is better cause it leaves more of the green stuff in your pocket where it belongs and not turned into excess profits for the engine makers. According to GOA company, North Coast Oil, Inc. ST Paul, MN. If you use TCW3 coded 3-15020 all engine makers must honor any warranty claims without regard to the brand of TCW3 oil used in the engine. In Sumary, I use TCW3 oil coded 3-15020 sold directely by oil companies. I know I am paying a fair price for an approved product and not contributing to unearned profits the engine makers try to make. Ron Bertsch Equipment Chase
Subject: Re: TCW3 Outboard Oil (Are they all the same?) From: ste1@delphi.com Date: 1996/04/21 Message-Id: <B-EqHRc.ste1@delphi.com> References: <4le1ua$69n@news.cpu.net> Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) X-To: Ron Bertsch <equipchase@minot.com> Newsgroups: rec.boats
Ron Bertsch <equipchase@minot.com> writes: >According to GOA company, North Coast Oil, Inc. ST Paul, MN. If you >use TCW3 coded 3-15020 all engine makers must honor any warranty >claims without regard to the brand of TCW3 oil used in the engine. By the way, in the United States, this is also Federal Law. It is called the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. An engine manufacturer can indeed require a certain brand of lubricant be used in their engine though. How? There is only one way; *if* the manufacturer were to provide the specified lubricant for *free*, or if it can be *proven* that the engine will only run properly with said specified *brand* lubricant. So if some unscrupulous store is telling you that you *must* use a certain bran oil in order to maintain any warranty, say to them "Okay. Where is my FREE oil?" If they do not give you the oil for FREE, then tell them that maybe it is time for you to call the Federal Trade Commission and report their *illegal* activities and efforts to rip-off the public. Engine, or equipment manufacturers can not legally specify *brands* of oils. Only RATINGS of oils. Yes, there are indeed differences amongst brands of oils in a given rating , i.e. TC-W3. A lubricant rating ensures a *minimum* standard. There are lubricant manufacturers that are not content with manufacturing lubricants to minimum standards, AMSOIL INC. being one of them with their complete line os superior quality synthetic lubricants. In general, any synthetic TC-W3 oil is going to perform much better than any petroleum TC-W3 oil, without question. High quality synthetic oils also can save some money for the consumer. But then, better quality products ususally do. Happy boating all! Steve 7 year independent AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants Dealer
Subject: Re: TCW3 Outboard Oil (Are they all the same?) From: equipchase@minot.com (Ron Bertsch) Date: 1996/04/23 Message-Id: <4lipqe$hb6@news.cpu.net> References: <4le1ua$69n@news.cpu.net> <B-EqHRc.ste1@delphi.com> Organization: CPU.net Newsgroups: rec.boats
ste1@delphi.com wrote: >Ron Bertsch <equipchase@minot.com> writes: > > Yes, there are indeed differences amongst brands of oils in a given rating >, i.e. TC-W3. A lubricant rating ensures a *minimum* standard. There are >lubricant manufacturers that are not content with manufacturing lubricants >to minimum standards, AMSOIL INC. being one of them with their complete line >os superior quality synthetic lubricants. > In general, any synthetic TC-W3 oil is going to perform much better than >any petroleum TC-W3 oil, without question. High quality synthetic oils also >can save some money for the consumer. But then, better quality products >ususally do. > > Happy boating all! > Steve >7 year independent AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants Dealer Thanks Steve for the additional input, however, TCW3 oil is not a synthetic, it is a natural oil and the formulation "TCW3 code 3-15020" means that it is a natural ashless oil used in low temp outboards. TCW3 oils blended with a synthetic are no longer a true TCW3 code 3-15020 oil. Once Again, there is no difference amoung the brands of TCW3 oils using the approval code of 3-15020. The only difference in the oil is the Price you pay for the label. Folks, its your money - demand more, and If you are looking for a low cost TCW3 oil with code 3-15020 contact me via E-mail and I will provide you with information on both product & pricing. For those outside the USA pricing information may take a little longer. Synthetics and Synthetic blends on the other hand perform far better in high or extreme temps such as racing engines, snowmobiles, cahinsaws, ect. Ron Bertsch equipchase@minot.com Equipment Chase
Subject: Re: TCW3 Outboard Oil (Are they all the same?) From: ste1@delphi.com Date: 1996/04/25 Message-Id: <5lEKvJ1.ste1@delphi.com> References: <4le1ua$69n@news.cpu.net> <B-EqHRc.ste1@delphi.com> <4lipqe$hb6@news.cpu.net> Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) X-To: Ron Bertsch <equipchase@minot.com> Newsgroups: rec.boats
Ron Bertsch <equipchase@minot.com> writes: >Thanks Steve for the additional input, however, TCW3 oil is not a >synthetic, it is a natural oil and the formulation "TCW3 code 3-15020" Then why am I looking at a bottle of synthetic 2-cycle oil that clearly states is is TC-W3? You might want to look into checking that. TC-W3 does not automatically denote a petroleum oil. It is simply a performance rating for an oil and there are many synthetic oils out there that are TC-W3 rated, AMSOIL included. Sincerely, Steve 7 year AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants Dealer
Subject: Re: TCW3 Outboard Oil (Are they all the same?) From: "ken.erdley" <ken.erdley@trans.ge.com> Date: 1996/04/24 Message-Id: <317E4681.391D@trans.ge.com> References: <4le1ua$69n@news.cpu.net> <B-EqHRc.ste1@delphi.com> <4lipqe$hb6@news.cpu.net> Cc: ken.erdley@trans.ge.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-Ascii Organization: GE Transportation Systems Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.boats X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I)
I believe that code 3-15020 is the certificate number for a particular manufacturer. It will be different for each brand of TCW3. I was in a store last week and looked for this. Three brands on the shelf that were TCW3 all had different certificate numbers. Am I right??? ken.erdley@trans.ge.com
Subject: Re: TCW3 Outboard Oil (Are they all the same?) From: huggins@prodigy.com (Robert Huggins) Date: 1996/04/24 Message-Id: <4ljqso$159c@rtpnews.raleigh.ibm.com> References: <4le1ua$69n@news.cpu.net> Organization: ISSC South Region, RTP, NC Newsgroups: rec.boats
equipchase@minot.com (Ron Bertsch) wrote: >TCW3 oil in itself is a specific formula. Close but wrong. TC3 is a specification. >Yea, the one with the lower price is better... If price is your only criteria. >If you use TCW3 coded 3-15020 all engine makers must honor any warranty >claims without regard to the brand of TCW3 oil used in the engine. True. Mercury Marine sells three different types of TC3 oil. One of their publications even rates these three oils on a 1-10 scale according to a set of criteria. In some cases, say carbon buildup, they might rate one oil as a 7, one as a 9, and one as a 10. All three passed the TC3 test, which might have had a cutoff of 5 for this criteria. Some people buy a boat and use it only once or twice a year. Some people buy a boat and use it an average of 50 times a year. Some people buy a boat and use it every day for work. Its a matter of how much carbon buildup, how much piston wear, etc. you want or need. Lubrication is more critical for some horsepower and design of engines than for others. It's too late when you have a broken piston ring and/or a scored cylinder. I'm tired of defending the OEM's TC3 oils to people that want to think that all TC3 oil provides the same amount of engine protection. If someone can provide some FACTS, I'll be the first one to point the finger (you know which one) and raise hell with the OEMs. Until then, the FACTS that I have seen indicate that all TC3 oils are not the same. Certain additives, which are expensive, provide more protection. The OEM's do not start the oil design process trying to design the cheapest oil which will pass the test. They are looking for oils which will protect their engines and also be affordable. As they say, your mileage may vary.... and the quality of the oil you use in your engine is one reason why! Robert Huggins huggins@prodigy.com
Subject: Re: TCW3 Outboard Oil (Are they all the same?) From: "Timothy P. Banse" <middlecoast@avalon.net> Date: 1996/04/29 Message-Id: <3184F848.1327@avalon.net> References: <4le1ua$69n@news.cpu.net> <4ljqso$159c@rtpnews.raleigh.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-Ascii Organization: Middle Coast Publishing, Inc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.boats X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I)
There is a big difference between TC-W3 oils. Some blends barely meet the specification, others exceed it. Those sold by the outboard companies tend to be the best because they are formulated to meet the powerhead's individual requirements. In other words, Mercury oil in black engines, OMC oil in Evinrudes and Johnsons. Tim Banse - Publisher- Marine Mechanic Magazine http://www.avalon.net/~middlecoast
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